427 replies to this topic

[Sparky]

Welcome to vibrantvictoria edvictoria.

[Rob Randall]

This is a direct quote from an e-mail correspondence with Mayor Lisa Helps concerning the Mount Edwards property:

 

"No one seems to have pointed out the fact that if a non-profit operator buys the building and wants to turn it into housing, there is a rezoning process to go through, which is a very public process with lots of opportunity for public input based on an actual plan. If someone like the province or the federal government were to buy it, they are not subject to municipal zoning and could use it for short term purposes as is. Even in that instance, in the long term for more permanent use, it would also go through a rezoning process."

 

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the rezoning process on this property. 

 

Who says this? Helps or some random dude?

[edvictoria]

Who says this? Helps or some random dude?

 

I copied this directly from an e-mail from Lisa Helps. Perhaps she is wrong, however, if the mayor of Victoria is not aware of the zoning bylaws and restrictions, than that's pretty embarrassing for city council. 

[attica]

This is a direct quote from an e-mail correspondence with Mayor Lisa Helps concerning the Mount Edwards property:

 

"No one seems to have pointed out the fact that if a non-profit operator buys the building and wants to turn it into housing, there is a rezoning process to go through, which is a very public process with lots of opportunity for public input based on an actual plan. If someone like the province or the federal government were to buy it, they are not subject to municipal zoning and could use it for short term purposes as is. Even in that instance, in the long term for more permanent use, it would also go through a rezoning process."

 

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the rezoning process on this property. 

 

Who the buyer is has no bearing on whether or not a rezoning happens, and it already was housing so its not being "turned" into anything. In fact it already was assisted housing, just like the new use. 
 

[Rob Randall]

I copied this directly from an e-mail from Lisa Helps. Perhaps she is wrong, however, if the mayor of Victoria is not aware of the zoning bylaws and restrictions, than that's pretty embarrassing for city council. 

 

I wouldn't say she's wrong, I'm just wondering why she thinks that or who told her that. I mean, sure, get the rezoning if you want to have the usage iron clad without question--but it's not essential.

Edited by Rob Randall, 01 February 2016 - 12:07 PM.

[attica]

Also, as Cool-Aid has pointed out themselves in this thread, this project will be like the 700 Block of Pandora, which operates under the CA-4 Zoning. Which also includes "Hospital" as an accessory use.

it also includes "Transient accommodations" which is for Hotels, but often also used for SRO's (Which the zoning at Mount St Edwards does not. But it was made clear that these people would be provided more permanent housing.
 

FYI, hospitals includes : "Private hospitals, nursing homes, intermediate care facilities, and community care facilities" - straight from the zoning

[edvictoria]

Who the buyer is has no bearing on whether or not a rezoning happens, and it already was housing so its not being "turned" into anything. In fact it already was assisted housing, just like the new use. 
 

I'm just stating what the Mayor of Victoria has said regarding the zoning of this property. If she is misleading the public than that's a whole other issue.  Either way, I'm just passing on the information that was received directly from the Mayor. As I previously stated, there seems to be a lot confusion on the rezoning process. 

[attica]

I'm just stating what the Mayor of Victoria has said regarding the zoning of this property. If she is misleading the public than that's a whole other issue.  Either way, I'm just passing on the information that was received directly from the Mayor. As I previously stated, there seems to be a lot confusion on the rezoning process. 

 

And thank you for doing so, those comments are quite peculiar by the Mayor. Even if she did believe it would be a non-conforming use, the wording of her statement is quite strange in relation to the rezoning process.

[Mike K.]

I would like to think that the mayor is more aware of what it will take to ensure this facility can operate as Cool-Aid intends it to operate than Joe-public. I'm quite certain that without due process this project will be mired in controversy and an absolute thorn in Helps' side. The Anglican school is not about to give up their fight, nor will residents of the area who will find out today that the province has purchased the building with the intent of turning it into a shelter.

[nagel]

So there will be a news release today?

[Mike K.]

Who knows, maybe. But if we found this info out on the weekend news will reach the community starting today.

[VicPushedOver]

Also, as Cool-Aid has pointed out themselves in this thread, this project will be like the 700 Block of Pandora, which operates under the CA-4 Zoning. Which also includes "Hospital" as an accessory use.

it also includes "Transient accommodations" which is for Hotels, but often also used for SRO's (Which the zoning at Mount St Edwards does not. But it was made clear that these people would be provided more permanent housing.
 

FYI, hospitals includes : "Private hospitals, nursing homes, intermediate care facilities, and community care facilities" - straight from the zoning

The site was a Nursing home.

The City defines nursing home as "a facility where regular care or supervision is given by a health care professional as well as assistance with the performance of the personal functions and activities necessary for daily living for persons such as the aged or chronically ill who are unable to perform them efficiently for themselves."

 

That really does not sound like what Cool Aid is proposing.

[nagel]

We don't actually have any evidence of this sale to the province yet, though.  Of course, it would be normal not to get any until the deal is complete.

[VicPushedOver]

In other news, There is no title change on the property yet.

 

Cool Aid is renovating the site, and is preparing it for occupancy. they don't own the building, they didn't have the money for renovations, now they do, City says the money did NOT come from them. City claims it has no involvement.

 

If the intent  is to use the site as a temporary housing facility for the "campers" then they don't need a permit. Its a worse case scenario for the school. Parents were told January 13 2016, it would not be until September 2017 (21 months) that the facility would be used. Its kind of late to try to pull their kids out in the middle of a school term.

[nagel]

Do you have any documentation for any of this?

 

How do you renovate a building at the same time you're using it for housing?  i thought it was reno and then housing.  If housing now, then no reno?  Or phased reno? Again, it's so hard to speculate/understand with no documents.

[Arnold]

There is not a renovation going on at this building. It is more like a re-decoration.

 

 

This building is actually suited very well for the purpose of housing. The rooms are small but they each have a nice bathroom and a window.

 

 

There is a massive commercial kitchen in the basement. Way better than a tent. 

Edited by Arnold, 01 February 2016 - 02:11 PM.

[edvictoria]

In other news, There is no title change on the property yet.

 

Cool Aid is renovating the site, and is preparing it for occupancy. they don't own the building, they didn't have the money for renovations, now they do, City says the money did NOT come from them. City claims it has no involvement.

 

If the intent  is to use the site as a temporary housing facility for the "campers" then they don't need a permit. Its a worse case scenario for the school. Parents were told January 13 2016, it would not be until September 2017 (21 months) that the facility would be used. Its kind of late to try to pull their kids out in the middle of a school term.

 

Cool Aid is not renovating the site, the only action on site last week, was removing old beds and furniture. Which would be in-line with making preparations to close on the property sale in a month. Cool Aid's offer was accepted, contingent on sourcing the appropriate funding, and will close at the end March if all goes as planned. I don't think a second buyer (The province) can swoop in and purchase the property, without Cool Aid folding on it's offer first. Baptist Housing is just cleaning out their property. If for some reason BC Housing has given the money to Cool Aid, and they consider using this as temporary shelter, similar to the boys and girls club, I would consider this a better case scenario for the school, than permanent low barrier housing, that allows for on-site drug use. One being that it would be temporary, and 2 being that the boys and girls club has strict regulations placed on it, in order to operate so closely to Central Middle School. Parents shouldn't panic and pull their children, if a temporary (say 4 month) facility is erected, with similar restrictions imposed as the Our place boys and girls club shelter, this would be more manageable than their first proposal.

[Flanagan]

As someone who works at this school and feels totally in the dark and the last to know about what is going on, I just want to give the proper respect to Vibrant Victoria and the administrator / mods in particular.  If only city "leadership" and non-profit agencies were as transparent and straight shooting and logical as the posters on this forum maybe we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

[Mike K.]

Thanks for your feedback, Flanagan. We're trying to get to the bottom of this.

 

What would be most welcomed right now is a comment from Alan who works with/for Cool-Aid in regards to the rumoured purchase of the building and whether or not the province is indeed involved. Something is definitely up, the building is being readied suddenly after a long time sitting dormant.

[attica]

The site was a Nursing home.

The City defines nursing home as "a facility where regular care or supervision is given by a health care professional as well as assistance with the performance of the personal functions and activities necessary for daily living for persons such as the aged or chronically ill who are unable to perform them efficiently for themselves."

 

That really does not sound like what Cool Aid is proposing.

 

Its specific past use does not matter in regards to rezoning, it is the total collection of allowed uses under the current zoning which matter. This includes broader types of care facilities and housing, such as nursing homes, community care facilities etc.

Its simply housing, which the zoning allows for. With some additional support services which the zoning allows for. You are trying to differentiate by the type of person being cared for/housed. Which the zoning does not do.

 

Cool Aid is not renovating the site, the only action on site last week, was removing old beds and furniture. Which would be in-line with making preparations to close on the property sale in a month. Cool Aid's offer was accepted, contingent on sourcing the appropriate funding, and will close at the end March if all goes as planned. I don't think a second buyer (The province) can swoop in and purchase the property, without Cool Aid folding on it's offer first. Baptist Housing is just cleaning out their property. If for some reason BC Housing has given the money to Cool Aid, and they consider using this as temporary shelter, similar to the boys and girls club, I would consider this a better case scenario for the school, than permanent low barrier housing, that allows for on-site drug use. One being that it would be temporary, and 2 being that the boys and girls club has strict regulations placed on it, in order to operate so closely to Central Middle School. Parents shouldn't panic and pull their children, if a temporary (say 4 month) facility is erected, with similar restrictions imposed as the Our place boys and girls club shelter, this would be more manageable than their first proposal.

Cool-Aid cannot begin any renovations until a internal BP is approved by the the Building and Engineering Department. From what I understand, they have util the end of February to close on the deal. The government would not be able to buy the property unless Cool-Aid retracted their current offer to purchase.

This period of time if also when the purchaser conducts its due diligence of the site. The activity on site could be related to different testing, or inspections being conducted. It could also be a condition of the contract that Baptist Housing removes a lot of there junk. Without seeing the contract to purchase we cannot say for sure.