194 replies to this topic

[Dexter]

There are accounts that the behaviour was reported to the ownership by staff who objected to the bartender’s harassment of staff and inappropriate behaviour to young female customers. Nothing was done as the bartender was considered a valued employee. Complicity is the cause of the protest.

[Daveyboy]

There are accounts that the behaviour was reported to the ownership by staff who objected to the bartender’s harassment of staff and inappropriate behaviour to young female customers. Nothing was done as the bartender was considered a valued employee. Complicity is the cause of the protest.

Unfortunately no different than numerous other situations where exactly the same thing happens.  Case in point: Today's Super Bowl Tampa Bay Buccaneers recent signing of Antonio Brown, a gifted athlete but toxic off the field.  Charges of rape, sexual assault, felony burglary and assault are all overlooked if he can help win the game.......

[Victoria Watcher]

Unfortunately no different than numerous other situations where exactly the same thing happens.  Case in point: Today's Super Bowl Tampa Bay Buccaneers recent signing of Antonio Brown, a gifted athlete but toxic off the field.  Charges of rape, sexual assault, felony burglary and assault are all overlooked if he can help win the game.......

 

he's not starting the process on the field or during the game though.  if a rapist works at a tire store the tire store has nothing to do with it unless he's using his time at work to access victims.  or the tire store knows of illegal activities and hides or ignores it.

 

it's alleged that this bartender started much of the behavior with serving drinks to the victims at the bar while he was working.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 07 February 2021 - 03:00 PM.

[Matt R.]

So other than this guy being an employee at Chuck's is there a reason why people are picketing the restaurant? Is there reason to hold the business accountable here? Sounds to me like it had nothing to do with the establishment or am I wrong about that?

He lives above the restaurant. There is some concern that the owners and management were aware of these issues and ignored them.

Matt.

[Mike K.]

Apparently he also worked at JR Slims, Warehouse and the Monkey Tree. Are there other places?

[Rob Randall]

The pick pocket doesn’t strip a person’s ability to reason and physically function. Nor does the sleazy real-estate agent or the guy selling a used car.

Mr Bartender just hands people what they came to purchase, for free, and the liquor does the work for him. You could be a mime and you’d get the exact same result.

 

You missed the point. The pickpocket actually does alter the victim's perception of reality. Many of the women (some of whom were sober) walked out of that apartment with varying degrees of awareness of their personal responsibility. Some thought they were in control and acted voluntarily when in fact they were being expertly manipulated. That's one reason many were reluctant to call police. They willingly walked into a carefully plotted trap. It takes more than just free liquor.

Edited by Rob Randall, 07 February 2021 - 05:24 PM.

[Mike K.]

I get your point, I just wholeheartedly disagree with it.

[Rob Randall]

I will allow Victoria Watcher to break the tie and I will abide by his decision.

[tanker]

Ok that all sounds bad then.

[Victoria Watcher]

i'll lean towards rob's take.

 

i'm not saying this guy was the best manipulator ever but he knew what he was doing.  two of the accounts spoke of his "love bombing" which to be honest i had to google to know what that meant.  when i found out it made me also think these girls were young and also perhaps gullible.  but i bet mostly young.   that's who falls for love bombing.  but he also knew who to move on most likely.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 07 February 2021 - 06:12 PM.

[Rob Randall]

i'm not saying this guy was the best manipulator ever but he knew what he was doing.  two of the accounts spoke of his "love bombing" which to be honest i had to google to know what that meant.  when i found out it made me also think these girls were young and also perhaps gullible.  but i bet mostly young.   that's who falls for love bombing.  but he also knew who to move on most likely.

 

Imagine owning five nightclubs. Think of how many thousands of young women that have crossed your path by the time you hit your forties. Eventually you become a sniffer dog for vulnerability. 

 

And to get back to your earlier post, a guy on the make is not going to work at a "woke" establishment, or a big chain with an established HR department or one owned by a savvy woman. He's gravitating to the small joints owned by bros. 

 

In discussing this topic last week a young woman told me of being love bombed. Things like a simple favour done for the woman; actions like bringing her an unsolicited coffee at work, even though she already had one and shouldn't really be drinking coffee anyway. He insisted to the point where she felt guilty for declining such a loving and generous gesture. When the behaviour became smothering she broke up with him and he proceded to contact all mutual friends to dispense his view of the breakup. In all my years I'd never had to deal with that. When I met him he was a super sweet, gentle guy, then I got a glimpse of the manipulator beneath the veneer. 

[Mike K.]

Older and mature women would see through the ridiculousness of this guy’s approach, that’s why I don’t buy the theory he’s some sort of a magician.

A 40-something imposing on an early 20-something isn’t skill, it’s just life experience and an understanding of the role age plays. Whether a man or woman, when you’re young and inexperienced you’ll view attention from someone much older very differently, and it’ll be quite captivating. As you grow older you learn to recognize sincerity and manipulation.

[Dexter]

I have heard that some of the women involved were frequenters of the bar scene and sought out the attention and drinks, even returning to the burger joint after the reported events. I’m not sure what it means in the grand scheme of things but I am not so certain that it’s cut and dry predator/victim scenario. Certainly looks like a manipulator in charge of alcohol distribution though and that the owners knew something about what was going on.

[qv]

I have heard that some of the women involved were frequenters of the bar scene and sought out the attention and drinks, even returning to the burger joint after the reported events. I’m not sure what it means in the grand scheme of things but I am not so certain that it’s cut and dry predator/victim scenario. Certainly looks like a manipulator in charge of alcohol distribution though and that the owners knew something about what was going on.

Since these women are saying it was nonconsensual, I'm inclined to believe that it went beyond what they wanted. Yes, he deserves his day in court, but the evidence seems to be quite damning. The spotlight should be on the abuser, not the abused.

[Dexter]

Agreed. Please do not mistake my post as victim blaming.

Since these women are saying it was nonconsensual, I'm inclined to believe that it went beyond what they wanted. Yes, he deserves his day in court, but the evidence seems to be quite damning. The spotlight should be on the abuser, not the abused.

[Victoria Watcher]

crown counsel is not stupid.

 

they know how tough a challenge this situation is.  consumption of alcohol and/or drugs to the point of blackout is a common theme in almost every account (every one but one maybe?).  that is extremely problematic for them when they call witnesses.  probably on all sides.  

 

i am a bit surprised there is no arrest yet though.  but maybe there is no hurry now.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 07 February 2021 - 08:18 PM.

[Rob Randall]

^I think they're just sorting through the continuing avalanche of Ontario accounts in addition to the local claims. Complicated.

 

Older and mature women would see through the ridiculousness of this guy’s approach, that’s why I don’t buy the theory he’s some sort of a magician.

A 40-something imposing on an early 20-something isn’t skill, it’s just life experience and an understanding of the role age plays. Whether a man or woman, when you’re young and inexperienced you’ll view attention from someone much older very differently, and it’ll be quite captivating. As you grow older you learn to recognize sincerity and manipulation.

 

If that were true there would be no such thing as senior phone scams.

[Mike K.]

Phone scams are people pretending to be someone they’re not, or blackmailing their targets.

You’re spreading the goal posts a little too wide. I maintain this guy is no Rico Suave. He’s taking the path of least resistance with the use of drugs and alcohol, allegedly. That takes zero skill. And when things don’t go his way, he throws tantrums, according to the allegations.

[Victoria Watcher]

crown counsel is not stupid.

 

they know how tough a challenge this situation is.  consumption of alcohol and/or drugs to the point of blackout is a common theme in almost every account (every one but one maybe?).  that is extremely problematic for them when they call witnesses.  probably on all sides.  

 

and what i mean by that is.  at some point - probably early on - police/crown are going to have to be blunt.  

 

"victim A, although your name will be subject to a press publication ban throughout the entire process, that does not mean that some people, including your close friends and family will not find out what you are going through.  and yes, you are going to have to take the stand as a witness and tell the truth about what you remember that night (or any length of time leading to the assault).  some of this might be very uncomfortable - either in a room full of strangers - or in a room with some people you know.  there will be no room for your to skirt around testimony or be unclear or dishonest, if this is to work".  

 

and it becomes double or triple complicated for all the accounts where there was allegedly many victims and suspects or witnesses in the apartment on the same night.  now you have some witnesses you might have to be oblige to testify against their wishes.  that's not good for prosecutors.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 07 February 2021 - 08:36 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

^I think they're just sorting through the continuing avalanche of Ontario accounts in addition to the local claims. Complicated.

 

yes.  imagine just trying to get all the timelines down just here in victoria.  that's going to be next to impossible.  lucky for phone/text records perhaps.  

 

remember when cellphones first came out?  and you'd literally get a monthly paper bill with 38 pages of calls?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 07 February 2021 - 08:43 PM.