Jump to content

      












Photo

City of Victoria | 2018-2022 | Mayor and council general discussion


  • Please log in to reply
9471 replies to this topic

#9121 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 16,893 posts

Posted 28 May 2021 - 10:01 AM

^^ Interesting. Why would the City not state it is the wrong guy then instead of saying the charges were unrelated to his work at the City?


Edited by spanky123, 28 May 2021 - 10:01 AM.


#9122 Stephen Andrew

Stephen Andrew
  • Member
  • 266 posts

Posted 28 May 2021 - 11:37 AM

Mr. Andrew,
I respect you, and I respect your new-found position. I am disappointed however.
My disappointment comes from a place that not too long ago, you consistently demonstrated you were listening and you heard those voices in our community who were pointing out many issues from lack of transparency to outright lies and all between those two spaces and now you do not.
Between those spaces in this instance is abuse of privilege, inability to recognize cause and effect/affect of the actions taken by politicians from a place of privilege. Today we all understand that a person who was in the court system for charges of sexual in nature, was eventually convicted, and the second instance of this sort that we are aware of, and was very close to the upper echelons of power. Now is not the time to reflect on social media that the public speaking to these issues could be wrong, have the wrong facts, and would be doing so on social media from a place of comfort. This statement you've made here today demonstrates to me a very fast indoctrination within the hallowed halls of politics. It makes me sad. Be accountable, be human.


My direction from our HR department is we cannot discuss personnel matters.

I’m trying to calm the waters here.

So here goes....

If a member of our staff was incarcerated in any situation and we were made aware, I’m certain we would seek legal advice and act accordingly. That assessment would likely bring about a review of position and placement and risk within the organization.

The dates listed assume many things. They are incorrect.

For instance, for any person working within any organization, the dates of employment may not reflect actual attendance at work. An employee may be absent from work due to a health leave, earned time off, a vacation, time in lieu of time worked, personal days off or any other time allowed under their employment contract.

Also, there is an assumption the city was aware of the charges against Mr. Elliott on a certain date.

I had access to Mr. Elliott’s conviction on the same day you were.

We have a process at the city manager and mayors office that if staff are away, there are a number of back up staff that backfill. That has happened. It is possible the back up person may use the email account of the person away from the office to maintain continuity to correspondence and projects underway. I cannot say if that happened here.

Moving forward my expectation is that procedures will be reviewed.
Meantime,
From everything I see, our executive team handled this situation professionally and appropriately.

The last time I saw Mr. Elliott at city hall was Friday March 19. I did not see him after that date. That is not disclosing personal information, it is a fact drawn from observation.

I hope that provides comfort to anyone who has concerns.

Edited by Stephen Andrew, 28 May 2021 - 11:45 AM.

  • Mike K., Brayvehart and Victoria Watcher like this

#9123 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 25,035 posts

Posted 28 May 2021 - 11:42 AM

My direction from our HR department is we cannot discuss personnel matters.

I’m trying to calm the waters here.

So here goes....

If a member of our staff was incarcerated in any situation and we were made aware, I’m certain we would seek legal advice and act accordingly. That assessment would likely bring about a review of position and placement and risk within the organization.

The dates listed assume many things. They are incorrect.

For instance, for any person working within any organization, the dates of employment may not reflect actual attendance at work. An employee may be absent from work due to a health leave, earned time off, a vacation, time in lieu of time worked, personal days off or any other time allowed under their employment contract.

Also, there is an assumption the city was aware of the charges against Mr. Elliott on a certain date.

I had access to Mr. Elliott’s conviction on the same day you were.

We have a process at the city manager and mayors office that if staff are away, there are a number of back up staff that backfill. That has happened.

Moving forward my expectation is that procedures will be reviewed.
Meantime,
From everything I see, our executive team handled this situation professionally and appropriately.

The last time I saw Mr. Elliott at city hall was Friday March 19. I did not see him after that date. That is not disclosing personal information, it is a fact drawn from observation.

I hope that provides comfort to anyone who has concerns.

 

Thanks, Stephen.

 

This satisfies me.

 

I also think as disturbing as people might find the facts here, his employment at the City didn't likely put anyone in harm's way here, including City taxpayers.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 May 2021 - 11:43 AM.

  • Rob Randall and Brayvehart like this

#9124 Stephen Andrew

Stephen Andrew
  • Member
  • 266 posts

Posted 28 May 2021 - 11:47 AM

Thanks, Stephen.

This satisfies me.

I also think as disturbing as people might find the facts here, his employment at the City didn't likely put anyone in harm's way here, including City taxpayers.


There is nothing I know of that causes concern.

Thank you
  • Mike K., Brayvehart and Victoria Watcher like this

#9125 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 16,893 posts

Posted 28 May 2021 - 02:10 PM

Thanks Stephen.

 

I respect your time responding. I think we can agree that I didn't make anything up. I referenced published news items and you have explained why those media accounts may not have been incorrect. I would only add two points to your summary.

 

Having a 3rd party use another person's email account for correspondence without disclosing such could be viewed negatively in addition to all sorts of potential liability issues. If in fact it did happen then I would suggest that is a practice that should stop.

 

There were many council meetings between March 23rd and yesterday. If you only found out about the conviction yesterday with the rest of us when Mr. Elliott had already been sitting in jail for 2+ months then I think that is a problem as well. Blindsides you and the rest of council. If he was some guy working the shop floor it is different then the EA for the Mayor's office. 


  • Stephen Andrew, Victoria Watcher and VIResident like this

#9126 Stephen Andrew

Stephen Andrew
  • Member
  • 266 posts

Posted 28 May 2021 - 08:17 PM

Thanks Stephen.

I respect your time responding. I think we can agree that I didn't make anything up. I referenced published news items and you have explained why those media accounts may not have been incorrect. I would only add two points to your summary.

Having a 3rd party use another person's email account for correspondence without disclosing such could be viewed negatively in addition to all sorts of potential liability issues. If in fact it did happen then I would suggest that is a practice that should stop.

*** I disagree on short term issues where an employee is expected to return - this helps due to continuity issues *** SA

There were many council meetings between March 23rd and yesterday. If you only found out about the conviction yesterday with the rest of us when Mr. Elliott had already been sitting in jail for 2+ months then I think that is a problem as well. Blindsides you and the rest of council. If he was some guy working the shop floor it is different then the EA for the Mayor's office.


So when a person - any person - leaves employment - however they leave, they still maintain privacy rights. They are entitled to their privacy being respected and an the organization has a legal obligation not to discuss their employment or terms of departure. The city upholds that obligation.

It’s irrelevant where an employee works, we still have no right to talk publicly about their departure from the city.

Without discussing anything about Mr. Elliott’s departure I told you the last tome I saw him at City Hall was March 19, 2021. That’s a fact. Any reasonable person would look at that observation.

Did staff know the details of Mr. Elliott’s conviction? Again, it’s irrelevant. Was the city or its employees at risk? I see nothing that supports that concern.
  • Brayvehart likes this

#9127 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 16,893 posts

Posted 29 May 2021 - 10:36 AM

So when a person - any person - leaves employment - however they leave, they still maintain privacy rights. They are entitled to their privacy being respected and an the organization has a legal obligation not to discuss their employment or terms of departure. The city upholds that obligation.
 

 

The fact that Mr. Elliott was convicted of a crime was public knowledge. It was published in the media (Alberta) in March and anyone can seek that information from an Alberta court (or online for free in BC). In addition, we (society) have established a different set of rules for sexual offenses. There are many examples of anonymous allegations being made public and being used as reasoning for employment termination let alone a conviction. Mr. Elliott was also in a role where he interacted with women. We (society) often use the argument that publishing allegations or convictions encourage others women to speak up when they might have thought they were alone. 

 

I find it ironic that we have a few local men who are accused of sexual assault online by anonymous complainants and the progressives have them fired and run out of town. We have someone in a key role in City Hall convicted of a sexual assault and the same people hardly seem distressed. In fact I wonder had he been sentenced to time served and not jail would he simply have returned to work with nobody the wiser?


  • Midnightly, Awaiting Juno and A Girl is No one like this

#9128 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 25,035 posts

Posted 29 May 2021 - 10:44 AM

he's in a unionized environment.   that is a protection the other recent employees (the ones fired and run out of town) have not had.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 29 May 2021 - 10:45 AM.


#9129 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 25,035 posts

Posted 29 May 2021 - 10:49 AM

The fact that Mr. Elliott was convicted of a crime was public knowledge. It was published in the media (Alberta) in March 

 

source?


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 29 May 2021 - 10:49 AM.


#9130 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 16,893 posts

Posted 02 June 2021 - 09:35 AM

source?

 

The City has now admitted that they were aware of the charges prior to sentencing. https://www.timescol...erta-1.24325775. Don't know why it was so hard to admit. Common sense would dictate that if someone didn't show up for work for 2+ months you would be asking why. If I was on council the question I would now be asking is why I was never told.

 

Eisenhauer said the city was made aware of the charges while Elliott was away on approved leave


Edited by spanky123, 02 June 2021 - 09:36 AM.


#9131 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 25,035 posts

Posted 02 June 2021 - 09:41 AM

i had asked for the source of alberta media coverage of the case in march.  I can find none.



#9132 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 16,893 posts

Posted 02 June 2021 - 09:48 AM

i had asked for the source of alberta media coverage of the case in march.  I can find none.

 

Me neither. I may have confused the reference to the date to the actual date.

 

In any event my point had been that obviously City Hall knew about the charges before we did. It was suggested that was not the case. We now know I was right and whether it was in the media or not is mute.

 

Now whether the sudden revelation by City Hall was related in any way to any enquiry made to the Taber Police Department is likely something we will never know!



#9133 tommy

tommy
  • Member
  • 1,257 posts

Posted 02 June 2021 - 10:35 AM

Me neither. I may have confused the reference to the date to the actual date.

 

In any event my point had been that obviously City Hall knew about the charges before we did. It was suggested that was not the case. We now know I was right and whether it was in the media or not is mute.

 

Now whether the sudden revelation by City Hall was related in any way to any enquiry made to the Taber Police Department is likely something we will never know!

i wish it was mute!...   ;-)


  • spanky123 and Brayvehart like this

#9134 JimV

JimV
  • Member
  • 678 posts

Posted 10 June 2021 - 04:35 PM

Well, I’m not surprised by council’s decision to cancel Canada Day.  (Not that anybody would be watching a “virtual celebration” anyway.)  The woke orcs won’t be satisfied until they have destroyed every element of our culture.  
 

I had pretty much given up on Geoff Young anyway.  His peculiar obsession with closing off roads is beginning to outweigh his more sensible votes on other issues.  The biggest disappointment is SA.  So far I’ve still got him in the credit column but he’s getting perilously close to sliding into debit.


  • Nparker, A Girl is No one, Vicrazy and 1 other like this

#9135 Awaiting Juno

Awaiting Juno
  • Member
  • 1,261 posts
  • LocationVictoria, BC

Posted 11 June 2021 - 01:09 PM

Nothing is accomplished by cancelling Canada Day. It won't bring back those lost in the decades residential schools were a reality in Canada. It won't bring clean drinking water to reserves or help with the lack of adequate housing for first nations. It won't improve access to addictions treatment for those who need it. It won't provide jobs or training. It is as good and as hollow as saying I'm sorry - without any action to make amends to the people harmed. 

 

This demonstrates a lack of leadership. Kamloops school closed in 1978 - more than 43 years ago - and the current act, cancelling Canada Day in 2021 in Victoria makes as much sense as closing the barn door long after all the horses have left the barn. What would be better: asking people to donate to initiatives specifically aimed at making right the wrong - things like the go fund me to support ground radar searches of other residential school sites, scholarships that are focused on supporting indigenous students, indigenous cultural centres, etc. 


  • Nparker, LJ, sebberry and 6 others like this

#9136 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 25,035 posts

Posted 11 June 2021 - 01:12 PM

this city council and mayor take the simple symbolic route every time.

but that’s a thing now.

#9137 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 16,893 posts

Posted 11 June 2021 - 01:41 PM

Nothing is accomplished by cancelling Canada Day. It won't bring back those lost in the decades residential schools were a reality in Canada. It won't bring clean drinking water to reserves or help with the lack of adequate housing for first nations. It won't improve access to addictions treatment for those who need it. It won't provide jobs or training. It is as good and as hollow as saying I'm sorry - without any action to make amends to the people harmed. 

 

This demonstrates a lack of leadership. Kamloops school closed in 1978 - more than 43 years ago - and the current act, cancelling Canada Day in 2021 in Victoria makes as much sense as closing the barn door long after all the horses have left the barn. What would be better: asking people to donate to initiatives specifically aimed at making right the wrong - things like the go fund me to support ground radar searches of other residential school sites, scholarships that are focused on supporting indigenous students, indigenous cultural centres, etc. 

 

Here is a survey question for you..

 

Does cancelling Canada Day improve or harm your perception of FN and are you more or less likely to want to support initiatives benefitting them in the future?

 

If FN leadership actually cared about the welfare of their people then they would be telling Helps and Alto to stay in their own lane.


Edited by spanky123, 11 June 2021 - 01:42 PM.

  • Nparker and kitty surprise like this

#9138 tommy

tommy
  • Member
  • 1,257 posts

Posted 11 June 2021 - 02:28 PM

some are calling for Canada Day to be a national day of mourning rather than a celebration

 

we can add it to this list

 

 

 

National Indigenous Peoples Day - June 21
National Indigenous History Month - June
National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, Sept. 30
Commemorating Indigenous Veterans, November 8
Inuit Day, November 7
Louis Riel Day, November 16
Treaties Recognition Week, November 4-8 
Orange Shirt Day - September 30
International Day of the World’s Indigenous Peoples – August 9
National Day of Awareness for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, - May 5
National Day of Action for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls - Oct 4

  • LJ and Victoria Watcher like this

#9139 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 25,035 posts

Posted 11 June 2021 - 02:32 PM

we need a captain cook day for sure.



#9140 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 16,893 posts

Posted 11 June 2021 - 02:34 PM

CFAX reporting that protestors defaced the statue of Queen Victoria on the leg lawns this afternoon. Next step is for it to come down.

 

 https://www.iheartra...ture-1.15401414


Edited by spanky123, 11 June 2021 - 02:35 PM.

  • Victoria Watcher likes this

You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users