26251 replies to this topic

[vortoozo]

It actually is - by definition - if two or more groups conspire to mislead.

There is no doubt that politicians and health officials conspired to give the public misinformation about mask use at the beginning of the pandemic.

They literally told us masks do not work. Then did a complete 180 weeks or months later.

 

When did they literally say masks do not work? I don't think the message was ever that they don't work - just that the science at the time didn't indicate they were necessary among the general population.

Here's Dr. Henry in May 2020 recommending masks in certain situations: Coronavirus: B.C.’s top doctor recommends non-medical masks in some scenarios | Globalnews.ca

 

And here's Dr. Tam in March 2020 indicating that masks should be prioritized for healthcare workers and that current scientific evidence was continuing to be evaluated for the general public, unless you are sick or a close contact of a case: Tam: Current evidence doesn't support public needing masks - YouTube

Edited by vortoozo, 17 January 2022 - 06:29 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

When did they literally say masks do not work? I don't think the message was ever that they don't work - just that the science at the time didn't indicate they were necessary among the general population.

Here's Dr. Henry in May 2020 recommending masks in certain situations: Coronavirus: B.C.’s top doctor recommends non-medical masks in some scenarios | Globalnews.ca

 

And here's Dr. Tam in March 2020 indicating that masks should be prioritized for healthcare workers and that current scientific evidence was continuing to be evaluated for the general public, unless you are sick or a close contact of a case: Tam: Current evidence doesn't support public needing masks - YouTube

 

 

 

 

Last week, Canada’s top doctor said that if we’re not sick, or haven’t been around someone with a confirmed case of COVID-19, we shouldn’t wear a mask. “Putting a mask on an asymptomatic person is not beneficial, obviously if you’re not infected,” she said.

 

This week, Dr. Theresa Tam did a complete about-face: actually, the use of non-medical masks can help to control the spread of COVID-19, she said. “Wearing a non-medical mask, even if you have no symptoms, is an additional measure that you can take to protect others around you in situations where physical distancing is difficult to maintain, such as in public transit or maybe in the grocery store.”

 

 

https://www.theglobe...a-crucial-time/

 

 

 

The UK Government has reiterated that Britons do not need to wear face masks in public, despite new US medical guidance advising Americans to do so.

 

Under current advice in the UK, people have been discouraged from wearing masks day-to-day – with only those suffering with coronavirus symptoms or looking after someone with suspected Covid-19 urged to wear masks to cover their mouth and nose to prevent the spread of the virus.

 

https://inews.co.uk/...erent-us-415623

 

 

 

 

Dr. Theresa Tam, Canada's chief public health officer, said while wearing a mask cannot protect the wearer, it can reduce the chance of spreading the disease.

 

"Wearing a non-medical mask in the community has not been proven to protect the person wearing it. It is an additional way that you can protect others," Tam said.

 

https://kutv.com/new...id-19-infection

 

 

 

 

 

Dr. Tam says not only that but in terms of public use, current evidence suggests that if you do not have symptoms a mask causes more contact between your face and the outside of the mask which could be contaminated.  She says if the public wants to use this measure they have to be very careful when taking it off.

 

https://www.mygrande...ot-recommended/

 

 

 

 

 

The Public Health Agency of Canada currently provides the same messaging for Canadians: If you're healthy, you don't need a mask to prevent the spread. "Wearing a mask when you are not ill may give a false sense of security," the agency says online, adding that there are risks associated with masks: they need to be changed frequently and improper disposal could increase infection risk.

 

It's a message that Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam reiterated in a press conference on Monday.

 

"What we worry about is actually the potential negative aspects of wearing a mask, where people are not protecting their eyes or other aspects of where the virus could enter your body, and that gives you a false sense of confidence," Tam said.

 

https://www.ctvnews....ounds-1.4873421

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 January 2022 - 06:35 PM.

[Moderation]

For the omicron variant see pages 18 and 19 for BC

 

http://www.bccdc.ca/...ata_Summary.pdf

 

Here is some data related to the Delta variant in BC. in the summer.

From Aug. 13-26, people not fully vaccinated accounted for 81.7% of cases and 85.8% of hospitalizations.

Past week cases (Aug. 20-26) – Total 4,565

• Not vaccinated: 3,255 (71.3%)
• Partially vaccinated: 477 (10.4%)
• Fully vaccinated: 833 (18.2%)

From this BC government source.

 

https://news.gov.bc....HLTH0054-001704

 

 

 

 

 

Past two weeks cases hospitalized (Aug. 13-26) – Total 217

• Not vaccinated: 172 (79.3%)
• Partially vaccinated: 14 (6.5%)
• Fully vaccinated: 31 (14.3%)

Past week, cases per 100,000 population (Aug. 20-26)

• Not vaccinated: 208.3
• Partially vaccinated: 111.1
• Fully vaccinated: 26.2

[vortoozo]

^^ None of those articles feature public health authorities saying that masks don't work.

[Victoria Watcher]

^^ None of those articles feature public health authorities saying that masks don't work.

 

The last one talks about more negative aspects of mask-wearing than positive.  That would indicate they "don't work" to me.

 

 

Dr. Theresa Tam, Canada's chief public health officer, said while wearing a mask cannot protect the wearer

 

 

Sounds like it "does not work" for the wearer.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 January 2022 - 06:39 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Fast forward to now:

 

https://www.theglobe...cron-explained/

 

 

 

Most experts agree, however, that single-layer cloth masks are not effective against the Omicron variant and it’s time to ditch them.

 

“One thing which is really important to realize is if you have a single-layer cloth mask, ditch it, full stop,” Peter Juni, scientific director of Ontario’s COVID-19 Science Advisory Table, told CTV News.

 

 

 

That is after almost 2 years of us all wearing cloth masks, and there is ZERO evidence the omicron variant somehow is a different size or shape to get through masks now.  Nobody is even suggesting that.

[Victoria Watcher]

 

 

 

https://ourworldinda...rg/covid-deaths

 

 

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 January 2022 - 06:54 PM.

[vortoozo]

The last one talks about more negative aspects of mask-wearing than positive.  That would indicate they "don't work" to me.

 

 

 

Sounds like it "does not work" for the wearer.

 

You're paraphrasing. She did not say that they don't work. Dr. Tam specifically indicated in the video, from March 2020, that masks were being prioritized for health care workers. And at the same time, it would also help against the spread of infection in people that were already sick. None of that says "they don't work". You have alleged that there was a conspiracy amongst health officials claiming that masks don't work, but I have provided evidence that that's not the case at all. This speaks to your credibility.

[phx]

 

B.C.’S COVID-19 CASE NUMBERS

 

As of the latest figures given on Jan. 17:

 

• Total number of confirmed cases: 299,146 (35,985 active)
• New cases: 5,625 (2,383/1,733/1,509)
• Total deaths: 2,490 (33 new deaths)
• Hospitalized cases: 819
• Intensive care: 99
• Total vaccinations: 4,447,145 received first dose (89.2% of eligible pop. 5+); 4,155,929 second doses (83.4%); 1,544,191 third doses (33.3%)
• Recovered from acute infection: 257,677
• Long-term care and assisted-living homes, and acute care facilities currently affected: 50

 

 

Note that confirmed case numbers are unreliable if the positivity rate is more than 5%.

 

The current positivity rate in Island Health is 27%.
 

[Victoria Watcher]

You have alleged that there was a conspiracy amongst health officials claiming that masks don't work, but I have provided evidence that that's not the case at all. 

 

Fauci said US government held off promoting face masks because it knew shortages were so bad that even doctors couldn't get enough

 

https://www.business...he-start-2020-6

 

 

In the early days of the pandemic, the World Health Organization, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and even WIRED warned people against using masks.

 

https://www.wired.co...r-to-must-have/

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 January 2022 - 06:59 PM.

[TFord]

Fast forward to now:

 

https://www.theglobe...cron-explained/

 

 

 

Most experts agree, however, that single-layer cloth masks are not effective against the Omicron variant and it’s time to ditch them.

 

“One thing which is really important to realize is if you have a single-layer cloth mask, ditch it, full stop,” Peter Juni, scientific director of Ontario’s COVID-19 Science Advisory Table, told CTV News.

 

 

 

That is after almost 2 years of us all wearing cloth masks, and there is ZERO evidence the omicron variant somehow is a different size or shape to get through masks now.  Nobody is even suggesting that.

 

 

You're paraphrasing. She did not say that they don't work. Dr. Tam specifically indicated in the video, from March 2020, that masks were being prioritized for health care workers. And at the same time, it would also help against the spread of infection in people that were already sick. None of that says "they don't work". You have alleged that there was a conspiracy amongst health officials claiming that masks don't work, but I have provided evidence that that's not the case at all. This speaks to your credibility.

 

 

He doesn't have to be credible does he? We are sharing information and personal opinions on this forum across all topics. 

 

VW has done a brilliant job shining a light on many aspects of this pandemic, as have all the members. We are all trying to better understand this situation. 

 

TFord 

Edited by TFord, 17 January 2022 - 06:59 PM.

[Moderation]

Hospitalization and ICU figures under these circumstances are a better indicator of the situation.

 

Note that confirmed case numbers are unreliable if the positivity rate is more than 5%.

 

The current positivity rate in Island Health is 27%.
 

[vortoozo]

Fauci said US government held off promoting face masks because it knew shortages were so bad that even doctors couldn't get enough

 

https://www.business...he-start-2020-6

 

 

In the early days of the pandemic, the World Health Organization, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and even WIRED warned people against using masks.

 

https://www.wired.co...r-to-must-have/

 

Both these articles state that masks were being prioritized for health care workers early on. In fact, the sentence immediately following the one you quoted in the second article states: They wouldn’t protect people against getting the disease, all those organizations said, and supplies looked short for the personal protective equipment that health care workers were going to need when the pandemic got bad.

 

Prioritizing masks for health care and essential workers is not at all the same as saying they don't work. In fact - it indicates that they DO work - that's why they were being prioritized for essential workers. And nothing has changed re: the messaging about surgical masks - they protect others if you're sick, but not you if others are sick. That has been constant.

 

Are you suggesting that you would have preferred if masks were not prioritized for heath care and essential workers early on? That's very different than alleging that there was a conspiracy by health officials indicating that masks don't work.

[Victoria Watcher]

AFTER the fact they told us they discouraged them to protect supplies for healthcare workers.   In order to justify their recommendations later.   Doesn't change the fact they lied to us at the time.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 January 2022 - 07:10 PM.

[phx]

Hospitalization and ICU figures under these circumstances are a better indicator of the situation.

 

Not really.  They are a lagging indicator, and then there is the whole “with” covid vs “from” covid issue.

[Moderation]

Not really.  They are a lagging indicator, and then there is the whole “with” covid vs “from” covid issue.

They are a lagging indicator for covid cases..Since we know that, why is it a problem in making comparisons?  For what comparison  do you think it  presents a problem? 

 

 Covid only vs covid because hospitalized for something else has always been the case reporting to this point then hospitalizations and ICU information is a valid to use. when making comparisons. Hospitalization, ICU and death numbers were one way that was used to conclude that Omicron was less deadly than delta, Accurate numbers of actual cases was not required for this conclusion.

[LJ]

[phx]

They are a lagging indicator for covid cases..Since we know that, why is it a problem in making comparisons?  For what comparison  do you think it  presents a problem? 

 

 Covid only vs covid because hospitalized for something else has always been the case reporting to this point then hospitalizations and ICU information is a valid to use. when making comparisons. Hospitalization, ICU and death numbers were one way that was used to conclude that Omicron was less deadly than delta, Accurate numbers of actual cases was not required for this conclusion.

 

 

Deaths are up disproportionally to confirmed cases in BC.  If one didn’t know better, one might think Omicron is more deadly.

[Moderation]

Deaths are up disproportionally to confirmed cases in BC.  If one didn’t know better, one might think Omicron is more deadly.

What do you mean by disproportionally?  Are you saying  that BC omicron deaths compared  to confirmed cases  are higher than delta deaths compared to confirmed  cases?  That is, the ratio of deaths to confirmed cases is higher for omicron than delta?

 

I would like to see the BC data  sources.

 

My statement was:  Hospitalization, ICU and death numbers were one way that was used to conclude that Omicron was less deadly than delta

[Matt R.]

CityNews Vancouver:
 
 
B.C. extends COVID restrictions indefinitely
 
 
B.C. businesses, including restaurants, bars, gyms, event venues, and places of worship will have to put up with COVID-19 restrictions a while longer, after the province announced it is extending current rules. In her order issued Monday, B.C. Provincial Health Officer Dr. Bonnie Henry said due to the ongoing threat posed by COVID-19 and the burden currently faced by the health-care system, she is extending restrictions which were set to expire at midnight. The order does not have an expiration date, meaning the restrictions will remain in place until announced otherwise.
 
 
 
 
 
^ that is the kind of thing that the opposition parties should - well - oppose.

My understanding is that the conference tomorrow will outline what the situation is going to be. The renewal of the order today was to keep it from running out before the conference…?