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City of Victoria looks to rein in horse-drawn carriages


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#421 Nparker

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 05:24 AM

I bet if CFAX had mobilized the same numbers in support of his cause he'd be singing a different tune. How anyone admires this man is beyond my comprehension.
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#422 Mike K.

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 05:33 AM

That’s the reaction of a politician who just lost control of an identity politics issue he believed not only his Together Victoria council would pass, but his supporters were told was in the bag and guaranteed to pass.

Isitt also showed us that he’s not interested in supporting the will of the people, but the agenda of his people and he will now lobby four other councillors to go against the will of the people and side with his people.

I don’t know what to call that, but it’s certainly not democracy.
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#423 Sparky

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 05:50 AM

Isitt's statement about collecting the numbers that he needs to complete this mission is a clear indication of "party politics" that is now a reality in our municipal politics. I'm surprised that he didn't get the required number of commitments before this meeting even started.

 

This is just the beginning of the political math that will decide the direction of our city's future.

 

The left is all we have left now...even if it's not right.



#424 rjag

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:03 AM

Isitt's statement about collecting the numbers that he needs to complete this mission is a clear indication of "party politics" that is now a reality in our municipal politics. I'm surprised that he didn't get the required number of commitments before this meeting even started.

 

This is just the beginning of the political math that will decide the direction of our city's future.

 

The left is all we have left now...even if it's not right.

 

He had the numbers I think what happened is that Collins had a reality check that this isnt her arena anymore, that she is aspiring to a bigger seat and needs to consider the people that will put her there. I'm quite sure that someone in the NDP election team or similar had a little 'come to Jesus' chat with her.  

 

Collins needs to create her own persona thats severed from the blinkered ideologues if she even remotely wants a chance at Ottawa  


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#425 Mike K.

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:14 AM

Did anyone catch Loveday’s comment that mentioned ahead of the vote, and I loosely quote, “obviously this motion won’t pass todag but...”?

I think Collins had identified to council prior to the meeting that she would not be supporting the motion. Loveday appeared to have confirmed it.

One has to wonder, then, when Isitt pushed for his new motion that called for near immediate action (that Young heavily objected to) and which was instantly seconded by Dubow (because he wanted to hear other’s feedback, oddly enough) wasn’t a form of pressure to get Collins to reconsider whether she’s with Isitt, or not?

In the end Isitt spoke about courage, but it was as though he was speaking to Collins, who he may believe needs him and his followers to win the election. The theatrics at the end were over the top, and no doubt a message to CoV voters that if they want action on that front (and many others) they need to vote in a suitable replacement should Collins leave council.

I have no doubt now that lobbyist and paid activist Jordan Reichert is Isitt’s chosen replacement for Collins and this whole debacle was intended to elevate him to a position where he would establish enough momentum to win. Instead the whole thing flopped, and in a big way, and it also saw Reichert proudly proclaiming he’s a paid activist and as such is paid to push his stance regardless of fact, public opinion or democratic process.

So in short, the messaging is clear: you want horses gone? Elect Reichert.
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#426 Cassidy

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:16 AM

Collins needs to create her own persona thats severed from the blinkered ideologues if she even remotely wants a chance at Ottawa  

She can't be too overt lest she appear disingenuous, but she seems to be quietly separating herself from the rest of her group.

This no doubt will temporarily throw a wrench into Isitt's plans to dominate Council's agenda.

 

The business community needs to desperately find, and heavily back a more centrist pro-business candidate to replace her.


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#427 rjag

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:18 AM

one thing I missed, being that Potts was acting Mayor did she vote on the motion?

 

Looks like it was Young, TJ, Alto and Collins against Isitt, Dubow and Loveday.....so does acting mayor only vote in the event of a tie?

 

Maybe that was part of Lisas strategy was to remove one of Isitts camp followers knowing that Collins may flip



#428 Mike K.

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:19 AM

She can vote, for sure. But she would have tied the vote so the motion would have flopped regardless. Helps would have broken a tie and voted against.

Isitt needed Collins. Without her vote he’s no longer the kingmaker.

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#429 rjag

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:19 AM

She can't be too overt lest she appear disingenuous, but she seems to be quietly separating herself from the rest of her group.

This no doubt will temporarily throw a wrench into Isitt's plans to dominate Council's agenda.

 

The business community needs to desperately find, and heavily back a more centrist pro-business candidate to replace her.

 

No chance that any sane individual would step back in to that arena unless they already had the scar tissue and didnt need the money...I wonder if Coleman would run again?



#430 rjag

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:20 AM

She can vote, for sure. But she would have tied the vote so the motion would have flopped regardless.

 

so tie votes defeat the motion...ok got it...but I bet she didnt vote



#431 Mike K.

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:20 AM

I’m trying to remember but I don’t think so. Once the vote is headed for a tie in a 4-4 skirmish the mayor usually abstains if there are only eight officials present.

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#432 Cassidy

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:22 AM

The theatrics at the end were over the top, and no doubt a message to CoV voters that if you want action on this front (and many others) you need to vote in a suitable replacement should Collins leave council.

The COV business community could literally dominate Council if it so wanted.

For decades, most of our Mayors and Councillors were representatives of the Victoria business community.

So few residents vote, the entire process is just waiting to be manipulated by the first reasonably large special interest group to do the math.

 

As Victoria became more a left leaning, pro-union, SJW focused town in the 70's and 80's ... folks from within that realm started getting elected by the very small number of COV residents who were actually voting.

The Victoria business community needs to read the writing on the wall, and start to get a lot more politically active than they currently are ... or there will be a lot more "horse carriage industry" votes to come, aimed at effectively turning Victoria into a western version of a socialist commune.


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#433 Cassidy

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:24 AM

I have long been under the impression that classic Roberts Rules of Order (which the COV follows) require the Chair not to vote unless there's a tie, at which point the Chairs vote breaks the tie?

 

**EDIT** Doing a bit of reading, I believe the principle involved is that the Chair votes if it will affect the outcome, or if the vote is by a ballot. Effectively, the Chair votes if there's a tie because their vote will affect the outcome.

The Chair would not vote if the results moved the issue forward minus their vote.


Edited by Cassidy, 25 May 2019 - 07:32 AM.


#434 Mike K.

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:29 AM

The business community is busy running businesses. That’s really the issue. The other issue is terms are four years long, which means the time necessary to dedicate to politics has increased by 33%. Four years is a long, long time to dedicate to something you’ve never done and might not like or be good at.

The way things are going is activists, political career hopefuls and folks with nothing to lose by ditching a low-paying job in favour of another paying job, but with power and prestige, are what’s left.
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#435 rjag

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:31 AM

 

The Victoria business community needs to read the writing on the wall, and start to get a lot more politically active than they currently are ... or there will be a lot more "horse carriage industry" votes to come, aimed at effectively turning Victoria into a western version of a socialist commune.

 

Oh they know. I was on the Chamber Board for years and it was a core topic a decade ago. There was always a few of us that wanted more interaction with councilors. ie inviting them to come one at a time to a board meeting in an informal capacity to get to know us and what we did and to hear from them and their vision and for us all to figure out how to work together etc...always fell flat as they never considered the balance of the seats would look like this



#436 Cassidy

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:33 AM

The business community is busy running businesses.

But when those in power repeatedly aim to destroy your business, isn't it time to get organized and deal with getting these kinds of SJW's out of City Hall?


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#437 Mike K.

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:34 AM

They also know most business owners aren’t voters in the City.

Believe me, if a leaseholder of a business, with a business license (ie your name is on a lease and attached to a license to avoid funny business) could vote, council would be at every meeting and asking YOU for your time.

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#438 Cassidy

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:43 AM

They also know most business owners aren’t voters in the City.

But regardless of their place of domicile, business owners can still wield a collective voice. They currently have the Chamber of Commerce, which they could direct to be far more aggressive than they currently are.

 

If the Chamber couldn't fulfil that mandate, then the Victoria business community could form a group specifically intended to counter the SJW tendencies of Council. If enough business were on board, Council would have no choice but to listen.

The Issit/horse carriage incident has demonstrated that he's out to destroy businesses, destroy livelihoods, and destroy lives all in support of his "Xanadu" agenda. Businesses will have to do something?

 

It's terribly obvious, and I don't mean to pander by putting it in writing ... but in politics, "the group" is always all-powerful, and "the group" is who politicians are ultimately forced to wind up listening to (even if they listen to the group privately and quietly, they are still forced to listen).



#439 Mike K.

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:49 AM

If a business’ best manager is very much politically opposed to an issue his or her boss supports, will the business owner alienate that manager by taking a public stand against his or her view? That’s not likely.

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#440 Cassidy

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 08:04 AM

If a business’ best manager is very much politically opposed to an issue his or her boss supports, will the business owner alienate that manager by taking a public stand against his or her view? That’s not likely.

It's hard to respond to "what if's", but in the end, if they both work for the carriage industry (or whatever industry Isitt targets next), and if Isitt gets a victory in a Council vote ... they'll both be out of a job.

 

In my own experience, most senior and junior managers working together in the same business are not nearly so polarized in any given opinion that they would be at total odds. It's far more likely that they would both realize that with politicians like Isitt left unchecked, they actually need to work together in a vigorous fashion in order to preserve their livelihoods.



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