Victoria Regional Transit System news (BC Transit)

[arfenarf]

I said it in my other thread, and I'll say it again. This system is opaque to a bright 12-year-old and that's evidence enough that the current maps and schedules are inadequate.

That spaghetti map BC transit supplies is not clear enough for her to use to work out how she might get home from downtown, or even how to get home from the Oak Bay town centre. It doesn't give her a quick view of the fact that she could hop 14, 15, 11, or sometimes (part of) 2.

She isn't quite sure where to pick the buses up, and I can't find anything on their web site (apart from that press release) that states where the new 15 actually stops. Since she's not sure she won't be carried past her destination, she won't use it.

I want to drop pins on a Google Map and ask it for directions and look at alternatives. I want to see which route will get me there sooner. I want to know that if I walk across Oak Bay junction, I can hop onto a bus instead of freezing my backside off in the shelter a block away. I want to click on a system map, highlight a route number, and see the whole route light up.

None of this is rocket science.

Get on it, Transit.

[bicycles]

why not a modern streetcar like Portland's for Victoria? it cost them $57 million to build a 7.7 km route. just have it run on its own ROW and its basically the same thing as light rail except cheaper. less infrastructure, no ridiculous stations, better integrated into the urban fabric. I definitely think Victoria could support something like this.

this is something i've been messing around with (ignore the red line) but the blue and green would be streetcar lines.

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&...68cf44e1a9da60

it can run alongside cars everywhere (except government from humboldt to bay, which would probably have to be turned into streetcar/bike/pedestrian only). just sync it with the lights so the only place it has to stop is at designated streetcar stops. it can carry more people then a bus, less stops, gets people faster, and can be done financially IMO.

[North Shore]

Originally Posted by piltdownman

Most of these problems could be solved with a Uvic coop student.

A question, since BC transit is too useless to integrate with google transit, could we do it? I could easily write script to convert the BC transit website to whatever xml format google wants and dozen people could use google street view to mark off the stops in a matter of weeks. Use a simple time interpolation for the stops and its done.

An Excellent idea, Plltdown! I'm in - I'll volunteer to do the Bus routes in Gordon Head/Cadboro Bay/Uplands.

Anyone else??

[arfenarf]

I know how to draw Google Maps but don't know how to set up transit routes. I'm good for the Fort Street family of routes if I can get a few nudges in the right direction.

[jklymak]

Originally Posted by piltdownman

A question, since BC transit is too useless to integrate with google transit, could we do it?

That would be fun, and I considered it too at some point. I'd check with Google first though - they have instructions for how to do it, but I have no idea how they decide to include website x as the proper "schedule".

[Caramia]

I'll take a couple of core routes. Perhaps numbers 7 & 3 since they are so confusing and go different ways depending on the time of day. My iphone has GPS so I could even ride the routes and mark the places and times of the stops to get a better idea of the timing.

[piltdownman]

Here is the details from Google.

Due to overwhelming interest in the Transit Partner Program, we are currently experiencing a significant volume of partner requests. Although we are unable to accept new partners at this time, we encourage you to sign-up in order to be placed on the waiting list.

But maybe we could get started and then we would have a basis for the data when Google opens it up. The most important thing is to check is if WE, not being BC transit, can submit our data.

Also watch BC Transit try to shut us down.

[UrbanRail]

Originally Posted by piltdownman

Also watch BC Transit try to shut us down.

It would be a bad PR move on BC Transit's part to try.

[Coreyburger]

A few facts/thoughts for discussion:

1. BC Transit shares its planning and other staff for the whole province. This includes fleet, which is why buses sometimes show up in other parts of the province that have run here, for example.
2. Google Transit Spec data from BC Transit is coming. I know one of the planners there personally and they don't exactly have a huge amount of free time to do it, tbh. There has been a great deal of service expansion recently. Last I heard they were planning on doing one of the 2nd tier systems like Kamloops or Kelowna as a test case.
3. Google Transit Spec is a publicly documented spec, you could scrape the data and put it into the google transit system. The full details can be seen at http://code.google.com/transit/spec/...ification.html
4. I really doubt that BC Transit would shut you down.

If I had the free time and inclination, I would do a prototype of the scraping. Then I would offer up my stuff to BC Transit and see if they bit. If they didn't, I would publish it online.

But the Google Transit Feed Spec is a big beast and very complicated. It would take a lot of work to get it done right. You need to input every stop, every line and all the timings along those lines.

[Coreyburger]

Originally Posted by bicycles

why not a modern streetcar like Portland's for Victoria? it cost them $57 million to build a 7.7 km route. just have it run on its own ROW and its basically the same thing as light rail except cheaper. less infrastructure, no ridiculous stations, better integrated into the urban fabric. I definitely think Victoria could support something like this.

this is something i've been messing around with (ignore the red line) but the blue and green would be streetcar lines.

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&...68cf44e1a9da60

it can run alongside cars everywhere (except government from humboldt to bay, which would probably have to be turned into streetcar/bike/pedestrian only). just sync it with the lights so the only place it has to stop is at designated streetcar stops. it can carry more people then a bus, less stops, gets people faster, and can be done financially IMO.

I too would love a streetcar system here in Victoria. A few comments

Green Route:
+ Downtown to UVic is heavily trafficked
+ Stops at Jubliee, another major destination
+ Eastern part basically parallels the new 15 express route, so BC Transit already figures they can get riders on this route
- Foul Bay Hill before Lansdowne is likely too steep for streecars
- Henderson right-of-way is too small to be anything but mixed running
- Craigflower ROW likely has the same issues

Blue Route
+ Downtown to Hillside is very heavily trafficked with the 4
+ Southern part is essentially the old 1992 streetcar route
- Finlayson is too narrow, with the work they did to narrow it to two lanes and add bikes lanes. Removing said bike lanes needlessly angers the biking community, which should be your friend when it comes to transit improvements. However...
- That point is moot, because the N. Diary hill is likely too steep

Red Route is the E&N, which is a well discussed route

A few further notes:
-I suggest you read Human Transit on streetcars: http://www.humantransit.org/2009/07/...ent-truth.html
As a streetcar advocate, it makes some good points about why people champion streetcars.
-7.4 mil/km is exactly what the Portland Streetcar cost: http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/pdf...e_20080213.pdf

All in all, a good piece of work. The next stage would be go out and crunch the demographics and existing bus riderships to figure out which of those lines to build first and what changes to makes to the routings, but those are planning things that can drive even an interested party like me to tears.

[Holden West]

Originally Posted by Coreyburger

4. I really doubt that BC Transit would shut you down.

The site seems like it only accepts data from public entities that oversee transit. I somehow doubt they would accept data from unofficial sources no matter how accurate.

But I think it's worth doing because if nothing else it would force BCT to put this project on the front burner. But I suspect gathering the volunteers and publicizing the effort (ie: forcing BCT's hand) would accomplish the goal better rather than investing countless volunteer hours in solitude only to be swept aside by BCT's own efforts.

[JustSayin]

Originally Posted by Mike K.

As silly as that sounds, it would still represent a giant leap over what we have now. The Nigerian could provide you with relevant schedule information and how to get from point A to point B, something unavailable now.

BCT needs to hire workers to man a call centre from 6AM to 12PM. That's what we need until we have modern scheduling options available.

If I'm somewhere in Central Saanich and have no idea which bus serves a given stop, one quick call to a live person would clear everything up.

As for the current schedules at some bus stops (note, some), they are indeed confusing to new users or infrequent users, but I suppose that's the nature of the beast.

I spent two years in Halifax and was a regular bus rider. I had a number to call and I would punch in the four digit unique code for my bus stop to see when the next bus was arriving - multiple routes and multiple arrivals.
It was all automated and I trusted it enough to brave blizzards to get the next bus. Hopefully the same kind of system could be adopted without too much pain.

[endayliner]

Originally Posted by JustSayin

I spent two years in Halifax and was a regular bus rider. I had a number to call and I would punch in the four digit unique code for my bus stop to see when the next bus was arriving - multiple routes and multiple arrivals.
It was all automated and I trusted it enough to brave blizzards to get the next bus. Hopefully the same kind of system could be adopted without too much pain.

Translink in Vancouver has a similar system. You text the stop number and it gives you the estimated arrival times for the buses at that stop.

[Bernard]

Originally Posted by endayliner

Translink in Vancouver has a similar system. You text the stop number and it gives you the estimated arrival times for the buses at that stop.

Translink also has a very good iPhone app

Given how easy it seems to be to make an app, the Victoria Film Fest has one, I do not understand why BC Transit does not have one for Victoria. You could have real time bus locations on maps.

[VicHockeyFan]

New transit fares/taxes have been set:

• $2.50 basic fare
• monthly pass to be raised over 3 years, so starts at $80 now
• $7 per home average property tax increase

[bicycles]

so edmontonians and calgarians pay $.25 more ($81.50 and $85.25 monthly) and get 3x the bus routes, google trip planner, a transit website tahts actually useful, plus a modern light rail system? I hope this fare increase means some positive changes soon...

[bicycles]

on a side note, is there some sort of Greater Victoria Transit Coalition similar to the cycling one? With the talk of how badly the website needs an update/simple things like google trip planner I think it's definitely needed. We see how much the GVCC gets done, it would be nice to see a group like that helping to improve public transit.

[Bernard]

They are raising the rates significantly faster than the rate of inflation. The last rate hike was a 7.1% one and this one is a 11.1% one. That is a cumulative 19% over the last three years. This is same amount as 8-9 years of inflation. To be fair to the public, we should see no rise in rates before 2018 at the earliest.

[Mike K.]

According to Tristan Hopper's Victoria trolley article, if transit fares kept up only with inflation, we would be paying roughly $1 for an adult fare today.

For whatever it's worth, the Halifax transit system's adult fare is $2.25, and $2.75 for their bus rapid transit lines (metrolink).

[piltdownman]

Did they eliminate Senior and Youth fare as planned?

$1.40 to $2.50 is a massive increase. U-pass also increasing from $73.25 to $90.00. Over double what it started at a decade ago ($44)

[VicHockeyFan]

^ There certAinly is not any expected major growth downtown.

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/fa...404/story.html

[...]

Commissioners had been looking at increasing to $2.50 the current $1.40 discounted cash fare for seniors and youths, but backed off after consulting with the public. Instead, the discounted cash fare will increase to $1.65. A book of 10 discount tickets will increase to $15 from $12.60.

Hikes in the discounted monthly pass will also be phased in, increasing from the current $42 to about $46 this year and then to $49 and $51, Causton said.

[...]

[Mike K.]

The discussion on streetcars in Victoria has been moved to this thread. Please continue that discussion there.

[hoi polloi]

Originally Posted by piltdownman

Did they eliminate Senior and Youth fare as planned?

$1.40 to $2.50 is a massive increase. U-pass also increasing from $73.25 to $90.00. Over double what it started at a decade ago ($44)

I don't understand the U-pass exceeding the cost of the hoi polloi's monthly pass..how does that work? How long are they good for?

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by hoi polloi

I don't understand the U-pass exceeding the cost of the hoi polloi's monthly pass..how does that work? How long are they good for?

The U-pass is good for the whole Sep-April I think.

[Mike K.]

U-passes are valid for four months.